Yee Tip on SSA and amputees

Leung Yee Tip is a Shan who currently lives in Chiang Mai, Thailand, where he works for the Shan Helath Committee. Among his many projects he supervises an amputee prosthetics clinic in northern Thailand. This is a transcript of a short interview on the subjects with him, February 2010.

Do you have an age in which people are allowed to work?

An age?

Yes, like children, or an age?

We don't use children.

How old are you in Shan to not be a child?

Eighteen. And also in the army too is 18.

How old is too old to be in the army?

Forty-five. Is mean that they can join between 18 and 45, and they can stay until 60 or 65. And also sometime, some of the children when they come with the SSA soldier they want to be a soldier, but we just send them to the school. Because some of their parents have been killed by the SPDC so they want to join the army.

Who is the funder for this farm project?

They is funder from CPI from America. (the anti-landmine organization Clear Path International)

How many amputees are there?

Here at this camp has 37 amputees. And then we choose from them who want to do this farming. And then we form a small company to look after this farm.

How did they become amputees?

Most of them are old soldiers from the MTA (Muang Tai Army, the predecessor to the current rebel SSA).

Land mines?

Land mines, and some in battle.

Do you get many new amputees?

Not, I did see a new one, some of them I think are new.

Does the SSA have people go out to look for land mines like in Loi Kaw Wan?

No here it's dangerous for them. If you don't know technically exactly how to search for land mines.

Htam Khur - On the Shan

An abridged version of an interview with the school principal of a Shan IDP camp, February 2010.

What's your name?

My name is Htam Khur, Sai Htam Khur. I'm 35 years old.

Are you Shan?

Yes.

Tell me about the Shan and Burmese.

Shan people, we have our kingdom in the past, and Burmese people they also have their kingdom in the past. And these two, our kings, they are always fighting. If the Burmese win the Shan people need to live under control of the Burmese, and if the Shan people win again the Burmese people need to live under control of the Shan people.

Burma became the colony of British in 1885, and Shan become colony of British in 1887. At that time Shan recognize their people by themself. If the British want to order the Shan to do something they just order to the Shan people directly, not to the Burmese.

When the time that our people need to get freedom from the British the Burmese they want to get the freedom also. General Aung San came to the meeting of the Shan people. If we will take the freedom together we will get the freedom very quickly from the British like that. And so some of the Shan people did not want to get the freedom together with the Burmese people, but some of the Shan leaders think that if we get together we can get the freedom quickly.

So at that time we took the freedom together with the Burmese, but we have agreement. We will organize the country together, during 10 years. After 10 years if the Shan people don't want to be in the union the Burmese, we can separate off by them to be Shan State. But, in 1962 General Nye Win became the dictator and take every power from the people and so until now we are under the Burmese.

Do the Shan still want to be a separate country?

Some of the Shan people want to get the freedom, but most of the people want the rights, the human rights. Rangoon is well developed and Shan state is not. But everything like the teak or the stone, they get it from Shan state or from the other states, but the states are not organized. And also the roads to go to Rangoon, from Daunggyi to Ga Lo the roads are not so good. But from Ga Lo to Rangoon is big road.

Where are you from?

I am from Taunggyi. I live in Taunggyi until 2003. When I finished university I get misunderstanding with my older brother, and I run away from my home to Tachilek. I heard they (Loi Kaw Wan) need a teacher to teach the children. The children are orphans, and people here is like the refugee and they are running away from the SPDC to build the village. So, I join with them and come here. Before I came here I am a shop keeper.

Are you a soldier in the rebel Shan State Army here?

Sometimes we are similar like the soldier, you know? Helping them. But really we are not. I am not a soldier.

Can you go back to inner Burma?

Yes, I can go back, but very dangerous because they (Burmese government officials) will ask me the information about this area. And even I answer them they will not believe on me, and they will put me into the prison. I just organize the school and the orphanage. About the (rebel Shan) army, I don't know many things about the army because I am not a soldier, you know? But the Burmese soldier will not believe on me.

How many students and orphans are here?

298 students. Now we have just 65 orphans.

Where do they come from?

The orphans are coming from near this area. In 1999 the SPDC (Burmese government) forced the people to move from their village, and when they run into the border they are far away from their father and mother and their father and mother don't know where are they. And some of their father and mother getting disease in the forest. And that time, if the people walking in the jungle met with the SPDC soldier, Burmese soldier, without question they shooting to the people walking in the jungle. Like that. So some people die during their running to the border.

Is it better now?

Now is better because not so much are fled from their village. Just in 1996 until 2001, very worse for the Shan people. Because at that time Burmese soldier force the people move from the village to live close to town, and the villager they don't have the money to stay near the town and don't know what kind of job they can do. So they are running to the border.

Tell me about LKW

LKW is an IDP camp. IDP is the internally displaced people. If they stay inside Burma the SPDC will force them to be porter and if they live inside Thailand they don't have the ID card. If they live among the SSA (rebel Shan State Army) the SPDC cannot come and force them to anything. And also the Thai people cannot make the trouble to them also. Yes, is small place.

Is the SPDC here in town?

No, just near our area they have their guard. And they cannot come into the village. But spy, we don't know about the spy. Sometimes spy can be Shan people. And can be Lahu, can be Akha, we don't know. Can be anyone. But even the people who want to come and visit the village if they want to like stay for one night or two night who will receive them to stay in their house, the village committee have to know about their background.

How many people live in LKW?

I heard from the village committee they said over 2,800 live here.

Do you think the SPDC could attack LKW?

Yes. Because it's a resistance group area. If the SPDC want to disappear the SSA, they will attack us.

Do you think it's dangerous here?

Not dangerous. I have lived here for seven years and I have seen no fighting during seven years.

Back in Shan state, in Burma, what does the SPDC do to the Shan?

Now? Now in northern Shan state is very worse for the people. I have a, sometimes I call to my house with my mobile, and sometimes I'm asking about the people who live inside Shan. They said northern Shan state is very worse for the people because now is like ceasefire group and SPDC. SPDC want the ceasefire group to be the border guard, ceasefire group did not want to be the border guard. Ceasefire is not over, just depend on the Burmese. The Burmese want to go around all the ceasefire groups, and they sent their troops every way to the ceasefire group. If the Burmese soldier group is going into the forest they need a porter.

Why do they force civilians to act as porters?

They don't want to carry their things, you know? Because they want to disappear the ceasefire group, and if they are matched against the ceasefire group they want the porters to be their cover. Put the porter in front of them and the ceasefire group cannot shoot them, you know? Ten years ago the same thing, you know? When the Burmese attacked the Muang Tai Army in Hong Mung they bring many Shan people, Shan porter from Shan state. And cover in front of them. And put the porter go first, put their uniforms on the porters and force the porter to go first. The porter, mine, pew! Like that. Is for them, for save their lives they get many porter for them.

Did the MTA know those were porters, not soldiers?

The first they don't know. But when the first attack is finished, when they clean the attacking area they saw the people who die are the Shan people. It's very hard for the MTA to attack the Burmese soldier.

What year did this problem begin between the Burmese government and the Shan?

1947. But at that time most of the Shan people, most of the Shan leaders believe on the Burmese. After the 10-year agreement no Shan people believe on the Burmese.

Are the problems in Shan state worse now, or better, or the same?

The same. You know, during 1962 until 1990, that time the Burmese soldier they are force the people move from the village and burn everything in the village. And next let the people to stay in their village again. And after one and two years force the people out again and burn the village again like that.

The reason why they do like that is to destroy everything of the Shan people, like the history book. Because our culture we'd write our history book and put at the monastery. Who can bring everything? Can't bring everything, so after we move from the village they burn everything. And if we come to stay again we bring back that again and put at the monastery. And for us to move again, we cannot bring most of – you know? And we lose the history book and culture also. And if we mix, like, SPDC get married with the Shan woman, the salary will get higher.

Why is the Burmese government doing this to the Shan? What is the goal?

They want to genocide the Shan people like that. I have heard from the Burmese when I was a university student, “next 10 year the Shan people will be disappeared. No Shan people will speak Shan language,” they said. Some of the Burmese soldier they said like that. When I was a university student I don't know how to speak Shan language.

Not even at home?

Just little. Just get understanding. But when I need to explain something in Shan I can't, just explain in Burmese language.

What language do people speak in Daunggyi?

Mostly is Burmese language. And now, even now my nephew if I call to my house he can't speak Shan. Just Burmese language to me.

------formal interview ends. While walking to the school kitchen Htam Khur recounts how he made a point to learn Shan in university. After graduation he was contracted to teach for three months in a Shan village. After several weeks the local SPDC captain told him to stop the classes and return home. Htam Khur refused. Over a number of days the captain became more enraged at Htam Khur's refusal to leave. The situation came to a head one evening as he was walking home, and the captain stopped him in the street.----- At this point in the story I turned the recorder back on.

'Leave now.'

'No.' I said 'no' again. Yeah he is very angry. He feel very angry and take out a gun, and point to me, you know? And I still said no. We are talking is very loud, very loud. And the villagers heard that and I think 20 or 30 villagers running out from their home, and we two, and they surround all of us. And the Captain cannot do anything. He is very angry and he said to me “now I cannot do you anything, but in the future I'm not sure.” Again, you know?

And I'm coming back with the villager to my rest-house. And the villager said, “hey teacher, this is a problem. You need to go back.”

“No, I had the promise with all of you. I need to stay here. Even he is not allow me to stay with you I will stay here for three months. Because of the promise, and teaching is still running, not finished yet.” And the village is very worried for me.

But I'm a little bit lucky, you know? The battalion from the Daunggyi base, they visit the village. This battalion leader we are know each other. And he come and visit me with the Captain. This captain very afraid of me that time, you know? If I say, “this captain he doing to me.”

You told?

No no, I didn't. The Major, he's the leader of the battalion. I didn't tell to the Major anything. And the Captain feel a little bit good.

And the next day he come and visit me. The Captain, “hey hey, sorry, everything that I do on you.” If they have some people afraid they are very kind people, you know?

But the Major heard about us from the villager. And when the major go back to Loi Lem base he ordered to the Loi Lem leader, the Loi Lem leader changing the Captain to the other area.

Gwan Kham, Loi Tai Leng Orphan

22 years old. Recounts being 11 years old when his village was attacked and he became separated from his family. He now works as a teacher and English-Shan interpreter in Loi Tai Leng. -February 2010

“I was in jungle, I went to look after buffalo, and then I come back to my village I don't see anybody, just only like the burnt house.

Did you try to find them?

No. I was very afraid about this. So I went to the jungle, and suddenly the military, about the SSA, come to the near our village and I saw them. And because they can speak Shan, right? So they ask me 'why you stay here alone?' 'I don't know. Because my family no here.'

I didn't know anything, but I want to go. So they ask me 'do you want to go with us? OK, we have food, we have everything for you,' like this. I got here when I was 12 years old. I stayed in the jungle with the military for five months.

Why didn't they take you here fast?

Because there is very bad weather. They cannot come here, because the Salween is like, flooding.

Is it correct that you were alone for four weeks, and then the SSA came and found you?

Yes.

Do you know if your family's still alive?

I don't know right now. Maybe until now they are, I don't know. Maybe they already go away from our world.

What did you do when you came here?

Go to school.

Had you had much school before?

No. I didn't have money to attend the school until I was 11, when I was in the Shan State.

How did you learn English so well?

I like to learn grammar, and I love to go to another person when I saw foreigner, I would like to talk with them.

Are you still in school?

I'm finished and now I'm working in the school.

What do you teach?

Before, English. And right now history, because I love to teach history.

Do you get paid to teach?

Mm-hm. Two thousand (baht) per month. ($67)

Do you think you'll ever go back to Shan State?

I think so.

Would you like to?

Yes.”

James Fu on the SPDC

Loi Kaw Wan Vice Principal and long-term SSA soldier, James Fu

Do you think the Chinese government will get involved in the Wa army issue?

Oh, they do not care for the Wa army. Really, because they just looking for the gas from Rakhine. You know the gas? In the mountain, not mountain, from the sea. The sea, Rakhine, from Bangladesh. They have some, how you call, natural resource. Gas. They will brought gas from Rakkan and through the Shan State to Yunnan and to Peking.

No way, not Beijing. Maybe Guangzhou.

Not Guangzhou. Ah, not Peking, maybe through Yunnan state to Shanghai. Maybe from Shanghai they will carry it to Beijing or some place. So they don't care for Wa, no no no. Before Wa is OK, important for China. Now, no use, nevermind.

Just in the past two weeks the vice president of Maing La, you know Maing La? Beside Wa, Maing La troop their vice president has been killed.

Really? Who?

The Burmese do that. Now they got a big problem. They angry angry now.

Do you think the SSA and Wa Army will ever get together?

Now they are very good friends now. They are waiting for fighting. If the Burmese come, nevermind, we are now OK, the same. If Wa start this fighting, he will be lost. He has to sacrifice too many things for this fighting.

Do you know how big the Burmese army is?

They are saying they have 300,000 Burmese soldiers. If Wa and Shan altogether they have just 50,000. But, with the person Burmese soldier is more. But we have to look at the fighting area. Fighting area is the higher mountain, and forest. Burmese soldier not skilled in mountain, not skilled in forest. They don't know which way to go. SSA Wa know everything. They spot a small path in mountain forests. But this time Burmese soldier, they said if they come to fight this time they will not use the soldier. First they will use the jet and mortar cannon. One-oh-five cannon. Now they have many weapons, they bought it from North Korea. They want to test their new weapon and find how effective it is. They want to test their new weapon so they want some fighting.

The election's coming—

The election no use. Even the referendum pass, no use. One village, one town ,one area, just one person represents all. 'OK, our village have 200 (he gestures on person filling out ballots) SPDC, SPDC good, good good.' Just one person do it. And this election the same. Finally the winner is SPDC. Finally everything, the SPDC is the winner, you trust this. No doubt. The winner is SPDC. Sure. SPDC the winner.

Some people don't care about election. No, some people they are very poor, they have to think about their daily life. What must they have to do, they just have to think about their job. No extra time they have to think about election. No use.

Do you think in the Shan cities like Taunggyi they have the same ideas about the election?

The same. All the same. All know the winner will be SPDC. They just play the trick, play the trick for the world. 'I already make election for the people, and finally the winner is me.'

The world must know and must not waste the time about the election. You want information you must NCGUB. You know NCGUB? NCGUB is, what we call NCGUB? Dr. Sang Win. Their organization, ah, how do I say? Now they plan to make the army that includes Burmese, Shan, Karen, Kachin, like that, they want to make together, all one army.

They who? The rebels?

Yeah, they want to do like the army under the president, Dr. Sang Win.

Can they cooperate enough to make it work?

I don't know. Last month they announce. To say is easy, but to do is very difficult. Even for one army, for one nation is too much trouble. Not the same ethnic group you have to get together is very difficult. And some are not the same in policy. Wa, communism. Shan are not communist. So how will they build a country? I cannot understand.

If the SPDC falls will all the rebel commanders give up their power for democracy?

Even I want freedom. I like freedom, I don't want any oppress, so I come here. I think here is be some freedom, but now I got no freedom. Now I'm like a small bird in a cage, I can't do nothing. Some, even some simple words I can't talk here. So you stay your life outside is better than us. You must understand about us, about our life. Some we cannot tell, we cannot talk, you know.

Do you mean you're not allowed?

I mean some word we cannot tell, we cannot tell the truth sometimes because we have to effect something behind us, we have to effect some shadow. Our imagine and our suggestion are not the same to other people. I stay too many place before and I know everything, I know everything. Sometimes I want to make like Diogeny. You know the story about Diogeny, in the text book? In the midday use a lantern and walk around the city to find the honest man. It's what I have to do here. 'Oh, what are you doing?' 'I'm looking for an honest man.'

In fact I like the army to stay the army. Don't come and interrupt in the village, in education. If you know you can come and give some idea. If you don't know about education then don't come and interrupt. You don't know about education and you come and order 'do like this do like this,' don't do that. If going on like this they lose so many people, so many soldier. So many soldier accept to stay. OK, no use, no hope left. Go away, better move.

Bay Da

We arrived in Loi Kaw Wan in the afternoon. Once we came through town to the medic compound, we stood and looked around at things. Suddenly a tall young man running at full tilt leapt onto Dr. Semkuley and hugged him with his arms and legs. That's the most emotional reunion I've ever seen between two men. The man was Bay Da, whom everyone knows has the biggest smile since Eddie Murphy, and much nicer than Murphy's. Especially since the corners of Bay Da's mouth curve up, even when he stops smiling, which he eventually did. He smiled so much those first few days anyone would think he was the happiest man in the borderlands. Of course, his smile fell into disrepair over the next two weeks. It began with slow fractures, changing from joy at having Myron back, to worry, nervous smiling. Beaten dog smiling. Shorter smiles, frowning in between, right in front of us. It took two weeks for Bay Da to stop being formally gracious, open up, and say enough for me. Two weeks to say something to me that could make me cry. When the woman watching her mother die of AIDS in the clinic down the road only made me angry. Bay Da climbed down from the frame he and the others spent all day building to hold these mega big solar panels, so the clinic will finally have night light. We sat on the grass together and he took off his Chinese army boots, inside which his feet had stewed all day without socks. Man what a stink! Like grade C ham left under the deck for a week. I moved to sit up wind and we joked about the smell. He said I should write about how people in Loi Kaw Wan are too poor for soap so donors would send some for his feet. Then we headed off to bring the tools someplace for safe keeping.


“Sometimes when we walked in the forest for four or five...or seven days, very difficult to get clean. No soap and got very dirty.” “You mean you were in the forest for that long?” “Yes” “What were you doing in the forest for seven days?” “Hiding, from Burmese soldiers.” “Oh. You were one of those people.” “Yes.” “What would happen if they caught you?” “They want to make us porters. Porters carry their weapons and food, and big bombs. A big bomb... They burned my father.” My skin crawled. “They took cigarettes, pressed on his face. You know when cigarettes burn, and the end is red? They burned on his face, here,” he traced his finger along his cheeks, “here.” “They tortured.” “Yes, tortured. I was seven...or six. I never forget that in all my life.” Earlier we had also joked about how he would like to be president. The things he would do, notably enact litter laws. Bay Da is an environmentalist, dislikes litter, and takes the decimation of the local teak forests by the SPDC personally. As he should, the SPDC are raping his people in order to rape his land. Anyway, his president talk ends with a smile and he says “in my next life.” “I want to have some coffee.” “I want my freedom.” “And what will you do with your freedom?” “I will travel, and present about Burma's politics and the environment.”


I didn't expect him to have an answer so ready. After we put the tools away, and after he told me about his father's torture and I tried to keep my head tilted up so tears wouldn't fall out of my eyes and perhaps he was doing the same thing, he told me more. “I will tell you my real dream. This is real, what I wish. I want to go to a small village and teach English. Have maybe 50? students. I teach English and improve my English. At my home town we have waterfall,” he showed with his hands, “a beautiful waterfall. And land is flat and soil is very...good.” “It's no good here?” “No. Very hilly, and difficult to bring water.” The Shan aren't a mountain people. They are traditional farmers who are used to rich plains where they can grow just about anything. This place is Akha land. The Akha like the rugged land, but they had to move aside here to make room for the Shan refugees. 


“I want to have a house, and around the house, trees, because I like the environment. I would have trees. That is my real dream.” “Do you want this in Shan, or Thailand?” “Shan. If I can, I don't like in Thailand.” 


The whole time, his nervous smile would flicker by. It's surprising how a face constructed to fall so naturally into a wide grin can drop into such exhausted despair. He'd mentioned even on the first day that he doesn't think about worrying things because it would just make him depressed. But I knew when he said that, even though I didn't know him, that he must think about those things all the time.

Shan Village Representatives Interview

Village heads from central Shan state travelled to the SSA camp for a secret conference on the future of the nation. Four of them agreed to meet for an interview, no pictures. With them at the table in a dark SSA hut was the English interpreter, two SSA soldiers who took thorough-looking notes, and me.

All of this entry is exclusively what they told me, drawn from my written notes of the interview.

The village reps all speak, often in unison, responding strongly to certain questions. They had come to the camp to discuss issues of Shan unity, and unity between the Shan and other ethnic groups fighting the junta. Unity, they explain, is one of the six policies of the Shan movement. The others are freedom, democracy, independence, development, anti-narcotics and peace.

They all want Shan state to be an independent country, as they claim was promised to them when Burma gained its independence from England. There are 26 ethnic groups in Shan State (the Shan compose about 60% of the population), but they have faith the 26 will cooperate to build a democratic country. They are even willing to work with the majority ethnicities of the other warring states: the Chin, Karen, Mon, to build a new country from all their lands. Any configuration is acceptable as long as it doesn't include the Burmese. This would result in a state shaped like a horseshoe wrapped around the Irrawaddy delta, but they are confident it can work.

They say it's always been the policy of the military government—the SPDC, to pit the ethnic groups against each other. Now that the election is coming and the SPDC needs to guarantee it will go smoothly, bribes are everywhere. Cars, houses, business opportunities and women all appear where the SPDC wants support. Suddenly, the SPDC has started holding weekly pep meetings in places they never visited peacefully before, laying out food and fine promises for all the villagers who turn out. The reps say everyone inside knows the gifts are meant to buy submission.

The same thing happened in 2008 before the constitutional referendum, in which nobody needed to vote and an appalling constitution was adopted.

They say they never see international aid, NGOs, or foreigners. Only in Taunggyi, the capital city of Shan where tourists are allowed to pass through on their way to Lake Inle, are foreigners ever spotted. But these men can't hang around Taunggyi, and they say they're alone out in the countryside. Not only does the SPDC forbid tourists from going anywhere they want to, foreigners are warned against venturing into the countryside, where they're told the Shan guerrillas will slaughter them.

The reps say come, someone please come and see the situation. They promise that a visitor would see the Shan aren't dangerous, they are friendly and ready to tell the truth. In particular, the men say, if a journalist comes that person would be worshipped for their daring.

One says the reason he came to the IDP camp conference was for the chance to meet a foreigner, and tell these things. They hope that in getting exposure, maybe humanitarian aid will come to Shan. They repeatedly ask the SPDC for health and education supplies, but nothing comes. Nothing but the army.

Since 1962 the army has always meant beatings, lootings, forced labour, extortion and death. If on their way home any are caught having come here they are certain they'll be arrested, they aren't certain of the consequences after that. Whatever happens, they say they are accustomed to being threatened with jail, injury, arbitrary fines and threats to their family. They will pass many checkpoints on their way back inside, and their only plan is to tell the military they were travelling to find work or visiting family on the Salween river.

It's common for Shan to cross into China, Thailand and Laos to find work, usually construction or farm labouring. This is because even without the military a family rarely makes enough at home to subsist on. So many people have crossed the border to work illegally that some Shan villages are made up entirely of old people. These village reps are trying to teach the youth about the independence struggle, but most choose to leave.

Another, almost final way to make enough money is to grow opium. After the fall of the Muang Tai Army in 1996, the SPDC took over the MTA's opium business, forcing farmers to continue growing it. and charging taxes on it. Despite its control of the opium trade the SPDC will also arrest people for it.

If life is hard without the SPDC at its worst, it's nearly impossible when it's on the attack. When the army arrives in a village without an outpost, it orders people away from their farms in order to act as slaves, building a base and carrying army equipment to the next site. It seizes food, supplies and accommodations, punishing anyone who opposes them. A few months ago the army burned two villages to the ground.

Rebel forces aren't thought of as a fighting resource equal to the SPDC. The SSA won't battle the Burmese near a village, as villages suspecting of helping rebels have been severely punished. Instead, rebels are all guerrilla fighters, ambushing government forces in the mountain forests. They say the SPDC hate the Free Burma Rangers the most, because the FBR carry a satellite Internet connection and post pictures of SPDC destruction online immediately after they find it. No matter what, the Shan reps feel like there is no way out. They believe their countrymen living a good life in Rangoon or Mandalay don't know the reality of life for the Shan, but they do know the SPDC are an evil force.

Why is the SPDC doing this? The consensus among the village reps is that this is ethnic cleansing. It always has been. The Burmese in power want the Shan and all the other ethnic groups to disappear, whether by assimilating, leaving or dying.

What the Shan want is the world to know, including the UN, so that they can get humanitarian aid, and eventually freedom. Some of the truth of what life is like in Burma was revealed during the democracy movement and massacre of 1988, but it's always been extremely hard for the Shan's voice to be heard. They say what the world sees of the Shan is just a shadow, not the body.

Interpreter Sang Won

Sang Wan was the interpreter for the Shan village reps interview. He's 34 years old, and he perfected his English by living in India for ten years. Apparently, for Shan who can afford higher education, going to India is a common way to study abroad for cheap.

After India he lived in Rangoon, then worked in Bangkok for a year and a half as a Thai-English translator before moving to Loi Tai Leng nearly a year ago. Now he's a member of the Shan army, working in the foreign affairs office and interpreting for foreign visitors.

He's a nice little man with wide-spaced teeth and a brown leather jacket. I first met him on the main road through Loi Tai Leng. It was evening and after a day of driving to camp we were finally there, so I walked out to have a look at the place. Sang Wan passed by and immediately began chatting, introducing himself, asking when we were likely to meet again. He wasn't the first English speaker I'd met in camp, so already I was impressed at the difference between people here and in Loi Kaw Wan.

After the interview finishes he and I walk with one of the soldiers who monitored me, whom happens to be a former member of the Free Burma Rangers and a friend of Sang Wan's from training days.

“If you extend your visa for six or seven months and come back here, you can go to the front lines.”

“I've been asking to go with the SSA for a year. I don't believe you.”

“You want to go?”

“Of course. I can't see anything from just the camps.”

For some reason the three of us began to joke around and do mock kung fu moves on each other.

“But in the jungle, you have to go like this,” said Sang Wan as he put me in a head lock and pretended to break my neck.

Interview with Global Neighbours Founder David Heppner, February 2010

Tell me about Global Neighbors. What is it, how did it get going? 
Heather (Heppner's wife) and I travelled to Thailand in 2004 and we were introduced to the situation on the borderline. We actually visited a small school, Saw Thoo Lei, I don't know if you've visited that school or not. We decided we couldn't change the entire world, obviously, but we did think that we could make a difference in this one place. So Heather and I decided to help the one small school. And we came back to Prince Albert and started talking to business people in the city here and people rallied behind us and they joined in and we bought some land and built a school for Hsa Thoo Lei and then after that we bought the land where the school was built and we built a dormitory for 200 kids right next to the school. And after that we built a day-care for abut 80 kids and so it just kind of kept on going. We just finished our last dormitory, as far as the education goes we built a dorm for 200 kids. The old dormitory is going to be used for future training and offices for the Burmese migrant workers association.
So that's basically how we got going, and from that point we branched out into two agricultural projects. 
We bought 79 Rai (30 acres) in Krep Lo, which is just outside of Mae Sot. We've had it for one year, and that's the farm we bought. We have title to it. And there's another agriculture project we're working on as well which is the school of 360 kids in the area and they are and were in extreme need of funding. So instead of funding the school we set up an agricultural project there as well. We bought about 40 Rai in that area, which is probably around 20 acres or so (approximately 16 acres), and we built a hog barn for them there and set up an irrigation system. And hopefully we'll help them into self sufficiency within the next couple years.

Who introduced you here?
What happened is, the reason Heather and myself went is my daughter and our son-in-law were hired to set up a program in Thailand, an experiential program with a university. My son-in-law couldn't go so the director of the program and my daughter went and they asked us to join them. And while auditing and eating with a member of the Chiang Mai University and the International Justice Mission - the International Justice Mission works with getting kids out of the sex trade, and so at the end of the meeting, which was actually quite graphic, they said there's another issue that's more pressing and that's the migrant situation on the borderland. After hearing that said we need to basically check it out. We rented a van and we picked up a Karen translator in Mae Sariang and then we drove down to Mae Sot. He showed us Mae La refugee camp, and then we also went to Mae Sot overnight and just before we left in the morning we spent about 15 minutes at the school. And so that's basically how we got to Mae Sot.


So you were hooked on the Karen?
Yes I was. We were very much engaged. After, we wanted to help them. There were some very very good people with a very difficult past and a rather bleak future from the way it looks right now. But hopefully things will change in Burma so they can go back to their homeland.

Tell me about your plans for the farm. Henry (farm manager Henry Tha Won Phirachenchie) took us out there the other day, now I'd like to hear about it from you.
Well first of all I'd just like to say that Henry is a gem of a man. We're just so privileged to work with him. He is a positive, energetic guy, who's just very happy to be helping his people.


Did Henry give you the story of what he did before? Yes, he said he was a caretaker with his family for a bunch of orphans in Mae La, but not too too much.
Well, basically what happened is he started a school (in Mae La refugee camp) there's about 200 odd kids there and he started the school, and he funded the school entirely on his own. He worked for Princess Cruise Lines. And he has had Hep B since birth, lots of people in Mae La camp have it. They did testing after about four or so, four or five years of him being with Princess Cruise Lines, and they tested for hep B and he had Hep B and therefore he could no longer work. And so here he was left with the dormitory and the school and no funding. And this is where we kind of intersected our lives. I was very impressed with him when he was translating for us and I asked him if he would like to be the manager of our farm. And he was very very excited about that and he still is to this day. So that's kind of how we bumped into Henry.


So what we've done now is it's one year of operations, it's been a fairly intense year because it's a large farm, by Thai standards, and everything is basically done by hand. We do have a tractor there and we do have some automated equipment like the rice planter and we also plant beans with like the big rototiller, the iron ox I call it. But we've got plans to grow fish. We've got probably around 30,000 and 40,000 fish. We had bought just 10,000 catfish for the four little ponds you saw there. And the bigger pond is supposed to have 30,000 fish in it, I'm not sure how many are there actually.
We're learning as we go. There's, I think there's some serpent heads in there that et fish and so we, what we're planning on doing is just leave them as they are, pull them out and then we'll drain the pond and clean the bottom out and make sure there's no predators in there. So we can be more effective in that particular pond.

We've got a sort of makeshift irrigation system going right now. Obviously for the dry season we need to irrigate, and we'd like to set up a permanent irrigation system. Now they're just kind of hauling pipes around here and there and keeping things wet. When there's excess water they'll just flood the rice paddies and then they irrigate that way as well.

So our plans for the farm, we're building a workshop, storage area and a small office in the front of our property. They're putting footings down right now. So we're vying to do a workshop where we're hoping to train students in some vocational training like wood working and welding. Also, when we bring our teams over we'd like to do the construction of desks onsite as well. And we'll be working with an organization called Youth Connect, they're in Mae Sot. and they work with kids once they've got out of school. And some of those that don't succeed in school, like if there's a 17 or 18-year-old fellow and he's in grade 5 for example and he's not going to make it we'll try and get him trained up with welding or some of the other trades, electrical  or whatever, And so they can use our facility, and then we're going to store our equipment in the warehouse as well, and then we're hoping to, there's an organization called Compassion International, and they have excess materials in a warehouse in Victoria. Like when manufacturers have overproduction they get materials from them. So we can have the materials for free if we pay for shipping. And so we'd like to have a distribution centre there to be used for distribution out of the building as well. So those are our immediate plans. We'd like to have the farm as a profitable entity and we can use all of our profits in the borderline area.

What made you decide on starting a farm out here? Was it that you wanted to use the food, or to use the money out here and train people up?
Well Heather and myself have been on the grain farm out here for 30 some odd years, so we're familiar with farming. We also thought it would be something that would keep on giving if we, once we were gone, or not here anymore in a few years time. The farm will still be operating and still be generating income for people in need over there. It's just a sustainable kind of a thing where we can either provide food or we can provide funds for projects. And I think we're probably going to be doing both. We've planted fruit trees, and hopefully in a couple years we'll be producing a fairly large quantity of fruit that we can either sell or we can bring to the kids in the camp. There's no problem getting rid of food.

How long did it take to raise funds? This sounds like a big project for a young NGO.
We are a fairly young NGO, we registered in 2005. We've been very fortunate with some of the people who travel with us. Some of the business people really like what we're doing and they've joined in with us. So we've got large number of supporters in Saskatchewan, mostly. We've got a few in Alberta, but mostly in Saskatchewan. And some of the supporters will take on entire projects. The hog barn was built by a retired fellow from Roster, actually he lives in Hague, his business was in Roster, and he raised all of the funds to build hog barn. And so he was out there supervising the job with the local people, and he funded the netire barn. So we've had some very very good support. A lady from north of Pié, her husband farmed for most of his life, and he passed away a couple years ago and on his death bed he told his wife that she needed to share some of her funds with people that needed help. Their family donated a tractor and rototiller. It's just been that kind of thing where people have joined in and helped out.
How much does it all cost? 
The equipment, that's the tractor, it's a 70 horse power with a blade on it, we've got a rototiller, we've got a disc, and we've got something else, a corn planter, and I think that was around $37,000 for that. The land cost us around $200,000. The warehouse will probably be around $30,000, that they're building now. And Propera was around $30,000. So yeah, there's been a lot of contributions. (totals nearly $300,000)
And this is dollars, not baht?
No, we're talking dollars here... Part of the reason for our success is that all of our funds that we raise go right over to Thailand. We have less than one per cent is what I would say is going into accounting fees and stationery and that sort of stuff. Up to this point we have raised - 100 per cent of our money is going over to Thailand. I'm not certain we can continue doing that, but it will be very close to 100, it will be in the high 90s. For some organizations, and I don't criticize them because you do need to have full time staff when you hit a certain size, but we're small enough that we don't have any paid staff. Everyone pays for their own way, and all of the money that we raise goes to Thailand.

Do you or your wife have any development experience, or did you just take the plunge?
No we didn't. Actually we didn't anticipate it growing this quickly. But we've never done this kind of work before. So it's not just my wife and myself. At this point we've got a board of directors who've done a good amount of work when it comes to fundraising, so it's not just my wife and myself.

How many people do you expect to employ at the farm, and who are they going to be?
They're all going to be local workers. The amount of workers we employ varies. Like, during the harvest time everything they do is by hand, there's no swathers. So everything, all the beans are cut by hand. We have about 25 workers that work on the farm during harvest season. Then it cuts down, I think he's probably got about five or so. He's got roughly five working now, they're just putting on fertilizer and there's something they spray on the soybeans to get them to set nitrogen. They do that just by hand, by hand sprayers. So everything is done pretty much by hand.

Have you had any successes so far you'd like to tell me about?
Well, our rice harvest was quite successful. We're growing jasmine rice, that's for export. Henry is the one who decides what we're going to plant and he's very keen on trying to maximize our return. So he went for an export quality rice. We don't have it hulled yet, we're buying a rice huller within the next month or so. There's 280 bags and they weigh about 200 pounds each. They're really huge bags and they're all full of rice. We don't really know what we're going to get until it's been hulled. It's like an oat or a barley seed, it needs to be hulled before you can see the rice. So we're going to hull it and bag it and sell it. And the price has been fairly good, I think we would have had at least an average crop of rice.

The beans were, the green beans were fairly good. We had some issues with, there were some annual grasses or perrennial grasses growing in the field and they took away some of the yield. We've since found out that if you put Roundup on it it kills that quite significantly. So we've put Roundup on the piece that was grassy and it's quite nice and clean right now. So next year I think we're going to anticipate a bit better yield with the green beans, but the prices were really high this year.

Do you find that you're learning a lot about the difference in farming out here in the tropics and that in Saskatchewan?
Yeah there's a huge difference, there's no rest over there. In Saskatchewan when you finish the harvest you do your fall work, you basically put your equipment away and you wait for spring. You anticipate and you prepare for spring and do your planning. But over there you're already planning and doing your next crop before your crop is harvested, and as soon as you've got your crop off your working on getting another crop planted. So there is quite a difference there. Also with irrigation it's something that I'm not familiar with but and I'm not familiar with growing rice and some of the other crops there. But I do have some experience with some of it.

What is your background?
I'm also in real estate. We have some real estate properties that we still own. And I've done some land development. So we're self sufficient at this point, we're not needing to take income from donors for doing this kind of work, so we're self sufficient that way.

What are some of the problems with the project? Henry said when locals found out the farm was a foreigners' project they raised their prices, is that true?

Yeah the land prices all around us have quadrupled since we bought, so if you want to buy another piece of land you have to pay four times as much. And we were wanting to buy a small piece of land to put the warehouse and office on there, but we've since decided that the prices are too high now, so we're just going to put the warehouse on our own land. We do have a little bit of problems with the authorities, but not a lot. We're trying to work in conjunction with the Thai people, so we do have Thai people that work alongside us as well. It's not just foreigners and people from the migrant community. We do have people working with us and we're trying to work in conjunction with the head villager and – Apataw is his name and it's kind of like the district manager. So they're quite aware of what we're doing and we're trying to work in conjunction with them.

What did you do here during your February visit?
Well we had to make some decisions. We did the final design plans on the building at the rear of the property. Henry's going to live at the back, he's going to have residence there. We're going to have workers' accommodations, we want to be able to have four rooms for workers. We're going to have two rooms for kids from Mae La refugee camp. There's 12 kids who'd like to go to higher education next year so we're going to put them and a dining room and staff rooms there in the back.

Do you want to become firmly established as a Mae Sot NGO, or are you willing to help out in other borderline areas?
We would consider other locations. Right now we're quite fully engaged in this project. We're planning to do the sow operation at the Mae Tao farm, we'll be starting the sow barn within the next month. We'll be building the sow barn in Mae Sot and then the hog, the finishing barns in Saew Ki and Propera. Then taking the weanlings from the other barn and then we're hoping that they'll learn how to butcher hogs and then we don't have to sell them into the market, we'll actually butcher them. We'll butcher them in Mae Sot and in Propera. And just try to create as much industry as we can and employment for these people. So we want to have a value-added kind of proponent for it.

What is the big problem for the Karen?
The big problem is they need their land back. Until that happens we're really in a tough spot. These are stateless people. If they go back to Burma they're in serious trouble because of the political issues there. What needs to happen, and we've talked to the Canadian ambassador in Bangkok on a number of occassions, we're working hard to try to get some political solution to Burma. If we can do that then we could build on something that would be more predictable. Right now they do need education, but they do need their homeland is what they need. That's a tough thing, but for myself now if I were trying to farm in Sasksatchean and somebody would burn my house and chase me off the farm, and then put me in another country where I wasn't really appreciated then it would be very tough for me. The solution would be for me to get my farm back. It's the same for them.

Before the first time you came here did you know much about the Burmese situation or the Karen?
We knew absolutely nothing. That was one of the shockers for us. We thought we were fairly well acquainted with the issues in the world, but we had never heard of the 50 or 60 year civil war in Burma and the plight of the migrant people in the area. And it's more than just Karen too, there's many different ethnic tribes. There's the Shan and the Mon and there's East Indians and the Muslim community has also been removed from Burma, so they're in a plight as well.

Interview with medic Bay Da, Shan State, February 2010

From an interview with 27-year-old medic Bay Da, Loi Kaw Wan, Burma, February 2010

What is Loi Kaw Wan?

Loi Kaw Wan is one of the IDP camp. People move from inside Shan State to live here. 

What year did Loi Kaw Wan begin?

Since 2000. During I am here, I didn't hear any problems around here.

We're still in Burma. Why is this place safer than further inside Shan State?

Because how to say that, we have like SSA (rebel Shan State Army) around here to protect this village.

If you're in Burma, in Shan State, how do people get to the IDP camps?

Very difficult. Walking, mostly.

Are you in the SSA?

Yes, I'm medic.

Do all the men have to be in the SSA, or they can choose?

They can choose. Not all. Depend on their mind.

Can they pay their soldiers?

No—which one?

Can the SSA pay?

Yes.

A lot of money?

No. I don't know about that. Not so much.

Do medics get paid good money?

Not so much, in the middle. 1,500 baht. (Per month. =$50)

That's enough?

Not enough.

Is there any way to make money here?

Yes, like, we have to go and pick tea leaves, in Thailand. And then sometimes we farm by ourself. Rice, pig, some rice farm.

Why do the Shan people need medics? Are there no doctors here?

No. Like inside Shan State? Most of the people there get sick, but no doctor, no health worker there. Nobody, like, very few medics.

How many medics are there here in Loi Kaw Wan now?

All of the medics here, 30. But all of them not here.

Where do they go?

Backpack inside. They go inside Shan State and look, take care of the patient inside.

Is it dangerous?

Yes, dangerous. Maybe sometime they're—I don't know, about the SPDC (the Burmese government and army). We have to be careful.

You're only giving medicine. What's wrong with that?

They don't like.

Why not?

They think that we are against them.

Are you?

Yes.

What does the SPDC want to do to the Shan?

They want, like, how to say? They want the Shan all, the Shan people, like no any, like, how to say? They want to do ethnic clean, cleansing. They want Shans to disappear.

But there are eight million Shans.

Yes. They try to control. They make us can't do anything. Like in Shan State they don't allow Shan people to study our language, like that. Like, sometime we study our language in a small village or monastery, temple.

In secret?

Yes.

So do they want you to become like the Burmese, or to disappear?

Maybe both.

How many ethnic groups are in Shan State?

Oh, about 20 ethnic. Shan, Palong, Wa, Kogank, Lahu, Akha, and Chinese. Pa'o, Kayin, many many, but I can't remember. Biggest group is Shan.

Do they want them to disappear too?

Yes, also the same. Everybody in Shan State.

Are there things in Shan State that the Burmese government wants?

Yes, things like natural resources. Wood. How to say, silver. The mines. Mining. No oil. Like gold. Diamond, yes they need a lot. Teak. They don't care about environment.

Do you want to go back to Shan State if you can?

Yes, but if the situation doesn't change it's not safe for me to go back.

What do you think could happen to you?

The SPDC they know from here, they will catch me and torture and they will kill me maybe. I don't know.

Have you seen them torture people before?

Yes.

Who?

My dad. When I was young, about eight or 10 years. They came and took my dad to be a porter and they torture him with cigarette and burn him, burn his cheek.

What did you do?

At that time I'm just children, I don't know. I can't do anything. And my mom only crying.

How long did the SPDC stay with you?

About one or two days. In my village they come from the city.

Did they tell you why?

I don't know. I can't speak their language. I don't know, I don't know. I just see. Make me sad.

Do they do this many times?

Many many times in my village.

Do you know now why they came?

I don't know.

When the SPDC comes to the Shan villages are they all soldiers, or other kinds?

All soldier.

They make you do porter work—

Yes. When I was young I used to go and build house for them.

You built their house?

Yes. Build, and dig. Dig the ground for their fighting.

But they're fighting the Shan.

Yes, but they force us to go to do for them.

So they force you to build their barracks to fight you. Are you angry?

Very angry.

You said they came when you were eight, that was almost 20 years ago. Are they doing the same thing today?

Worse than that. Like last year, they burn the house inside Shan State. They burn the village.

Have you been interviewed before?

Yes, I think two or three times.

Do you think it's helping when you tell your story?

Yes, I think it helps.

Does it make you tired, or sad though?

Yes, makes me sad but, also make me strong.

Can you still contact your family in Shan State?

Yes, by telephone. Sometimes, maybe once a year.

Why not more?

If they don't call me I cannot call them, because they are very far from the town. They come to the town and call me. Give me bad news.

What is the news they gave you this week?

I lost my nephew.

How old was he?

About four years.

How did he die?

From disease. Some disease but I don't know. They don't know. I also ask them, but they don't know.

Didn't he go to a hospital?

No, no hospital there. Just wait and see. Sometimes a little bit herbal medicine from the forest, but not help very much. I lost three younger brother and one sister and one nephew. Five of them, from different diseases.

Do you think about the election anymore?

I don't think the election will be fair. I don't think.

Do you know when it will be?

I don't know. They won't tell. I have no idea about that. Nobody knows.

Can you vote in the election?

No. Most of them, most of the Shan people that live in the small village outside the town they don't have ID, how can they vote? To get ID we have to pay a lot of money.