Htam Khur - On the Shan

An abridged version of an interview with the school principal of a Shan IDP camp, February 2010.

What's your name?

My name is Htam Khur, Sai Htam Khur. I'm 35 years old.

Are you Shan?

Yes.

Tell me about the Shan and Burmese.

Shan people, we have our kingdom in the past, and Burmese people they also have their kingdom in the past. And these two, our kings, they are always fighting. If the Burmese win the Shan people need to live under control of the Burmese, and if the Shan people win again the Burmese people need to live under control of the Shan people.

Burma became the colony of British in 1885, and Shan become colony of British in 1887. At that time Shan recognize their people by themself. If the British want to order the Shan to do something they just order to the Shan people directly, not to the Burmese.

When the time that our people need to get freedom from the British the Burmese they want to get the freedom also. General Aung San came to the meeting of the Shan people. If we will take the freedom together we will get the freedom very quickly from the British like that. And so some of the Shan people did not want to get the freedom together with the Burmese people, but some of the Shan leaders think that if we get together we can get the freedom quickly.

So at that time we took the freedom together with the Burmese, but we have agreement. We will organize the country together, during 10 years. After 10 years if the Shan people don't want to be in the union the Burmese, we can separate off by them to be Shan State. But, in 1962 General Nye Win became the dictator and take every power from the people and so until now we are under the Burmese.

Do the Shan still want to be a separate country?

Some of the Shan people want to get the freedom, but most of the people want the rights, the human rights. Rangoon is well developed and Shan state is not. But everything like the teak or the stone, they get it from Shan state or from the other states, but the states are not organized. And also the roads to go to Rangoon, from Daunggyi to Ga Lo the roads are not so good. But from Ga Lo to Rangoon is big road.

Where are you from?

I am from Taunggyi. I live in Taunggyi until 2003. When I finished university I get misunderstanding with my older brother, and I run away from my home to Tachilek. I heard they (Loi Kaw Wan) need a teacher to teach the children. The children are orphans, and people here is like the refugee and they are running away from the SPDC to build the village. So, I join with them and come here. Before I came here I am a shop keeper.

Are you a soldier in the rebel Shan State Army here?

Sometimes we are similar like the soldier, you know? Helping them. But really we are not. I am not a soldier.

Can you go back to inner Burma?

Yes, I can go back, but very dangerous because they (Burmese government officials) will ask me the information about this area. And even I answer them they will not believe on me, and they will put me into the prison. I just organize the school and the orphanage. About the (rebel Shan) army, I don't know many things about the army because I am not a soldier, you know? But the Burmese soldier will not believe on me.

How many students and orphans are here?

298 students. Now we have just 65 orphans.

Where do they come from?

The orphans are coming from near this area. In 1999 the SPDC (Burmese government) forced the people to move from their village, and when they run into the border they are far away from their father and mother and their father and mother don't know where are they. And some of their father and mother getting disease in the forest. And that time, if the people walking in the jungle met with the SPDC soldier, Burmese soldier, without question they shooting to the people walking in the jungle. Like that. So some people die during their running to the border.

Is it better now?

Now is better because not so much are fled from their village. Just in 1996 until 2001, very worse for the Shan people. Because at that time Burmese soldier force the people move from the village to live close to town, and the villager they don't have the money to stay near the town and don't know what kind of job they can do. So they are running to the border.

Tell me about LKW

LKW is an IDP camp. IDP is the internally displaced people. If they stay inside Burma the SPDC will force them to be porter and if they live inside Thailand they don't have the ID card. If they live among the SSA (rebel Shan State Army) the SPDC cannot come and force them to anything. And also the Thai people cannot make the trouble to them also. Yes, is small place.

Is the SPDC here in town?

No, just near our area they have their guard. And they cannot come into the village. But spy, we don't know about the spy. Sometimes spy can be Shan people. And can be Lahu, can be Akha, we don't know. Can be anyone. But even the people who want to come and visit the village if they want to like stay for one night or two night who will receive them to stay in their house, the village committee have to know about their background.

How many people live in LKW?

I heard from the village committee they said over 2,800 live here.

Do you think the SPDC could attack LKW?

Yes. Because it's a resistance group area. If the SPDC want to disappear the SSA, they will attack us.

Do you think it's dangerous here?

Not dangerous. I have lived here for seven years and I have seen no fighting during seven years.

Back in Shan state, in Burma, what does the SPDC do to the Shan?

Now? Now in northern Shan state is very worse for the people. I have a, sometimes I call to my house with my mobile, and sometimes I'm asking about the people who live inside Shan. They said northern Shan state is very worse for the people because now is like ceasefire group and SPDC. SPDC want the ceasefire group to be the border guard, ceasefire group did not want to be the border guard. Ceasefire is not over, just depend on the Burmese. The Burmese want to go around all the ceasefire groups, and they sent their troops every way to the ceasefire group. If the Burmese soldier group is going into the forest they need a porter.

Why do they force civilians to act as porters?

They don't want to carry their things, you know? Because they want to disappear the ceasefire group, and if they are matched against the ceasefire group they want the porters to be their cover. Put the porter in front of them and the ceasefire group cannot shoot them, you know? Ten years ago the same thing, you know? When the Burmese attacked the Muang Tai Army in Hong Mung they bring many Shan people, Shan porter from Shan state. And cover in front of them. And put the porter go first, put their uniforms on the porters and force the porter to go first. The porter, mine, pew! Like that. Is for them, for save their lives they get many porter for them.

Did the MTA know those were porters, not soldiers?

The first they don't know. But when the first attack is finished, when they clean the attacking area they saw the people who die are the Shan people. It's very hard for the MTA to attack the Burmese soldier.

What year did this problem begin between the Burmese government and the Shan?

1947. But at that time most of the Shan people, most of the Shan leaders believe on the Burmese. After the 10-year agreement no Shan people believe on the Burmese.

Are the problems in Shan state worse now, or better, or the same?

The same. You know, during 1962 until 1990, that time the Burmese soldier they are force the people move from the village and burn everything in the village. And next let the people to stay in their village again. And after one and two years force the people out again and burn the village again like that.

The reason why they do like that is to destroy everything of the Shan people, like the history book. Because our culture we'd write our history book and put at the monastery. Who can bring everything? Can't bring everything, so after we move from the village they burn everything. And if we come to stay again we bring back that again and put at the monastery. And for us to move again, we cannot bring most of – you know? And we lose the history book and culture also. And if we mix, like, SPDC get married with the Shan woman, the salary will get higher.

Why is the Burmese government doing this to the Shan? What is the goal?

They want to genocide the Shan people like that. I have heard from the Burmese when I was a university student, “next 10 year the Shan people will be disappeared. No Shan people will speak Shan language,” they said. Some of the Burmese soldier they said like that. When I was a university student I don't know how to speak Shan language.

Not even at home?

Just little. Just get understanding. But when I need to explain something in Shan I can't, just explain in Burmese language.

What language do people speak in Daunggyi?

Mostly is Burmese language. And now, even now my nephew if I call to my house he can't speak Shan. Just Burmese language to me.

------formal interview ends. While walking to the school kitchen Htam Khur recounts how he made a point to learn Shan in university. After graduation he was contracted to teach for three months in a Shan village. After several weeks the local SPDC captain told him to stop the classes and return home. Htam Khur refused. Over a number of days the captain became more enraged at Htam Khur's refusal to leave. The situation came to a head one evening as he was walking home, and the captain stopped him in the street.----- At this point in the story I turned the recorder back on.

'Leave now.'

'No.' I said 'no' again. Yeah he is very angry. He feel very angry and take out a gun, and point to me, you know? And I still said no. We are talking is very loud, very loud. And the villagers heard that and I think 20 or 30 villagers running out from their home, and we two, and they surround all of us. And the Captain cannot do anything. He is very angry and he said to me “now I cannot do you anything, but in the future I'm not sure.” Again, you know?

And I'm coming back with the villager to my rest-house. And the villager said, “hey teacher, this is a problem. You need to go back.”

“No, I had the promise with all of you. I need to stay here. Even he is not allow me to stay with you I will stay here for three months. Because of the promise, and teaching is still running, not finished yet.” And the village is very worried for me.

But I'm a little bit lucky, you know? The battalion from the Daunggyi base, they visit the village. This battalion leader we are know each other. And he come and visit me with the Captain. This captain very afraid of me that time, you know? If I say, “this captain he doing to me.”

You told?

No no, I didn't. The Major, he's the leader of the battalion. I didn't tell to the Major anything. And the Captain feel a little bit good.

And the next day he come and visit me. The Captain, “hey hey, sorry, everything that I do on you.” If they have some people afraid they are very kind people, you know?

But the Major heard about us from the villager. And when the major go back to Loi Lem base he ordered to the Loi Lem leader, the Loi Lem leader changing the Captain to the other area.

Loi Tai Leng Clinic

Loi Tai Leng Clinic interview transcript with Head Medic Paw Shar Gay, February 2010

How many medics do you have here?

Here we have two medics, and the other people is me, Ba Tay is finished from Dr. Cynthia's clinic and then the other is finished the Siesta Blue training. Siesta Blue training Community Health Worker. Total staff at the clinic is 22 people.

How many patients do you get here per day?

One day is maybe 20, sometimes 30.

Are they mostly from Loi Tai Leng, or from inside Burma too?

Some people is from outside, some people is from here. But mostly IPD (In-Patient Department) is outside.

Loi Tai Leng's problem is ARI (acute respiratory infection), also skin infection is high. And rainy season is rain all the time, four months no sun. Sometimes is maybe one week or two week sun is come out. You know, our dress we make the fire wood and the fire make dry. The sun cannot make dry. And then UTI (urinary tract infection) is become high.

What do you do to help people prevent it?

Every year we plan to prevent it. Our clinic do like the home visit. One month we will going to section and home by home, give education. And then give information and vitamin A.

Do you see vitamin A deficiency here?

Sometimes we see like one year maybe one case or two case.

Do you always have enough medicine?

Enough medicine? Yeah is enough. Before the medicine did not enough and then we ask more money to buy the medicine. And the Partner did not came in here and also backpack, FBR (Free Burma Rangers) did not come in here. From outside, we take medicine here to outside and go and give the people who live outside Loi Tai Leng, like mobile team, and then our medicine did not enough.

The donor says 'Paw Shar Gay, you say every year medicine did not enough. How about this year, this is enough?' Last year he come back. And then I said, 'yes, before medicine did not enough, but this year enough.'

And then he laughing and said 'why medicine did enough this year?'

'Backpack is coming here, and then FBR is coming here and go outside outside, and same the Partner group is outside and then our medicine we use here not outside.' So here is enough for me.

Are there any backpack medics here?

Backpack medics is four, five people. Yes, sometimes if they come back from inside they coming here. If he going inside maybe two months or one month he will come back here.

Are people's gardens here big enough that their nutrition is good?

Yeah, we see now better than years before. And then we can get vegetables. Big garden (in reference to the sponsored one in the valley) but the vegetables is not enough. Some the shopping go down to Burma part and buy vegetable. Because you know here we can plant in the rainy season. This season no water. We can't plant, we have to buy outside. But in the rainy season is enough. We can buy here and sell here, in the garden. It's like, how do you say, save the money for us. But in the dry season is cannot save the money.

Do you have a computer?

Yeah. One computer is not so good. Internet if we going to the leader's house and check the Internet. But our computer is maybe five years. Is working very very slowly.

Do you see health here looks better now than when you began as a medic 14 years ago?

When I arrived here in 1999, no clinic. In 2000 one clinic. The people, the leader here is building the one clinic, like small like this, this room. We treat the villager, also the military. We treat both. And then clinic is very small, in Section 3.

At that time the people is not know about health. Not health education, they did not know about this so much. They did not know about the family planning. You know in the year 2000 we delivered 120 babies. At that time population is maybe 1,000. And now population is 2,600. More people here but the people know about the education and then they can provide and think. And this year is 42 babies delivered. Very different.

Then you know about the vaccine? Before two year, three year they don't want to receive the vaccine immunization, because the people said if they get the immunization her children is become sick and then is painful, cannot sleeping enough for the night time, because the baby is crying. Very painful, they don't want to come. The health worker is work hard, like go down and give education like this. Because immunization is very very important. But many people they also tell me, 'before we did not receive, we never receive vaccine. But we alive until now. We did not get other disease like you say.'

They ask me and then I answer, 'before is like the before. Before is the disease is not like this. So your baby, how do you say? Like, you is very old, and then you will dead. Your baby is growing and then in the future you will not see. Your baby, maybe your baby can get some anything you did not know about. If you receive the vaccine maybe the vaccine can help like the infection is coming less. Not 100 per cent. Maybe 50 per cent. Explain the parent about the vaccine. And then now, if we looking in the register book the vaccine is become improved. And many children is receive the full course of the vaccine, immunization. For me I think is improved.

And then the last one is education about diarrhoea. We need to boiling the water and then drinking. If you boiling the water, water will be safe for our life. Cannot get the disease easy like the diarrhoea, something like that. Washing the hands for you going to toilet, but if after you finish the toilet after you come back wash your hands before eating.

One man is very old, and then he ask me, because we give toilets, we have the budget for building the toilets. We ask to building the toilets and one man he ask me, 'Sa Mah,' they call me Sa Mah, 'I never believe about this because now my age is 70 and I never boiling the water and drinking the water because if you boiling the water, the water is not sweet. If you go to taking in the river and then drink, is sweet. And then sometimes we did not go in the toilet, we go in the forest. Sometimes we going pass stool in the river,' he said like this.

And then I'm about this question thinking, because I cannot answer yet. I thinking, and then I remember my Sir tell me that if you go in the community you will get many many problems. The people will ask you many questions. And then I remember. I ask that man, 'OK, you say is true. The water you carry from the river is sweet. If you boiling then is not so sweet, right, true. But at that time,' I call him uncle, 'Uncle, at that time how many household at that village?'

And then he answer me 'not so much.'

'And then you see now, many people in this village. And then if the one people going to pass stool at the river, and another people is going to pass, it will put a lot of things in the water. It will be clouding. If only Uncle you going to pass in the river maybe the river will pass stool with the river, but many people not so good.

And the pig, they did not make the pen, they did not have a pen for a pig, they will free for the pig. And then maybe that pig will go pass stool at the river. And then maybe the rabbit, some rabbit is move down to the river. And then this water is sweet. So then uncle is drinking some stool from the river, so become sweet. So that uncle not believe me. Only uncle can pass in the river, but for the other people I think it's not so good if you go down to pass in the river or in the forest. You need to build the toilet. The toilet it will save the stool and then not so smell.

Gong Mong Mung (Hill View Place) LDP camp

Gong Mong Mung is the newest of the SSA's IDP camps. “Mung” is the same as that in “Muang Tai,” the Shan's name for Shan State. The Shan call themselves the Tai. Mung means state, or place. Roughly translated, Gong Mong Mung means “Hill View Place.” It was established in 2007, but not as a result of the September 2007 monks' Saffron Revolution. Most of its 60 families came from a nearby Burmese town that was formerly the headquarters of the Muang Tai Army, until the MTA leader surrendered and the Burmese attacked. Life is still hard for them there because of that.

Unlike the other IDP camps, many of the buildings are adobe. It may be because there is a much larger than usual proportion of Wa and Pa'o mixed in with the Shan. The Commander's place is adobe, with a kitchen, a bedroom and a main room a quarter full with supplies like mosquito nets. He also has wood-shuttered windows, a well made bamboo gazebo, raised flower beds and bamboo fencing. Here, as in Loi Tai Leng, electric cables are strung down the street on sturdy poles.

The SSA commander is a strange looking man. Pale, broad faced, bad haircut and sores on his chin. He wears an expensive looking watch, a ruby ring and a “We Love Shan State” T-shirt.

It's a tiny village, with a tiny feel. For now there are only four orphans, only one land mine amputee. Most of the town sits in a bowl shaped valley perhaps half a kilometre across, surrounded by steep forested hills. At Gong Mong Mung's main entrance stands a blue oriental archway. Just a few hundred feet before that is the Thai-Burma border with a Thai military checkpoint, with a red and white striped barrier pole and just one young border guard manning the hut. The kilometre of dirt road before him is met by farmland, then a Chinese village on a lake. It's a beautiful, peaceful setting.

There are three teachers and 50 students in the school, between Grades 1-3. Higher grades will be added as the town grows, more teachers come, and the school adds more classrooms. It is currently quite small – one tiny class building one office building, one dining hut.

As in the refugee camps and other IDP villages many of the students were sent ahead to live with extended family. In Gong Mong Mung they can get better education than inside. The school teaches Thai, English, Burmese, Shan, History, Geography and Math. Later, their families may move here to join them.

Shan Village Representatives Interview

Village heads from central Shan state travelled to the SSA camp for a secret conference on the future of the nation. Four of them agreed to meet for an interview, no pictures. With them at the table in a dark SSA hut was the English interpreter, two SSA soldiers who took thorough-looking notes, and me.

All of this entry is exclusively what they told me, drawn from my written notes of the interview.

The village reps all speak, often in unison, responding strongly to certain questions. They had come to the camp to discuss issues of Shan unity, and unity between the Shan and other ethnic groups fighting the junta. Unity, they explain, is one of the six policies of the Shan movement. The others are freedom, democracy, independence, development, anti-narcotics and peace.

They all want Shan state to be an independent country, as they claim was promised to them when Burma gained its independence from England. There are 26 ethnic groups in Shan State (the Shan compose about 60% of the population), but they have faith the 26 will cooperate to build a democratic country. They are even willing to work with the majority ethnicities of the other warring states: the Chin, Karen, Mon, to build a new country from all their lands. Any configuration is acceptable as long as it doesn't include the Burmese. This would result in a state shaped like a horseshoe wrapped around the Irrawaddy delta, but they are confident it can work.

They say it's always been the policy of the military government—the SPDC, to pit the ethnic groups against each other. Now that the election is coming and the SPDC needs to guarantee it will go smoothly, bribes are everywhere. Cars, houses, business opportunities and women all appear where the SPDC wants support. Suddenly, the SPDC has started holding weekly pep meetings in places they never visited peacefully before, laying out food and fine promises for all the villagers who turn out. The reps say everyone inside knows the gifts are meant to buy submission.

The same thing happened in 2008 before the constitutional referendum, in which nobody needed to vote and an appalling constitution was adopted.

They say they never see international aid, NGOs, or foreigners. Only in Taunggyi, the capital city of Shan where tourists are allowed to pass through on their way to Lake Inle, are foreigners ever spotted. But these men can't hang around Taunggyi, and they say they're alone out in the countryside. Not only does the SPDC forbid tourists from going anywhere they want to, foreigners are warned against venturing into the countryside, where they're told the Shan guerrillas will slaughter them.

The reps say come, someone please come and see the situation. They promise that a visitor would see the Shan aren't dangerous, they are friendly and ready to tell the truth. In particular, the men say, if a journalist comes that person would be worshipped for their daring.

One says the reason he came to the IDP camp conference was for the chance to meet a foreigner, and tell these things. They hope that in getting exposure, maybe humanitarian aid will come to Shan. They repeatedly ask the SPDC for health and education supplies, but nothing comes. Nothing but the army.

Since 1962 the army has always meant beatings, lootings, forced labour, extortion and death. If on their way home any are caught having come here they are certain they'll be arrested, they aren't certain of the consequences after that. Whatever happens, they say they are accustomed to being threatened with jail, injury, arbitrary fines and threats to their family. They will pass many checkpoints on their way back inside, and their only plan is to tell the military they were travelling to find work or visiting family on the Salween river.

It's common for Shan to cross into China, Thailand and Laos to find work, usually construction or farm labouring. This is because even without the military a family rarely makes enough at home to subsist on. So many people have crossed the border to work illegally that some Shan villages are made up entirely of old people. These village reps are trying to teach the youth about the independence struggle, but most choose to leave.

Another, almost final way to make enough money is to grow opium. After the fall of the Muang Tai Army in 1996, the SPDC took over the MTA's opium business, forcing farmers to continue growing it. and charging taxes on it. Despite its control of the opium trade the SPDC will also arrest people for it.

If life is hard without the SPDC at its worst, it's nearly impossible when it's on the attack. When the army arrives in a village without an outpost, it orders people away from their farms in order to act as slaves, building a base and carrying army equipment to the next site. It seizes food, supplies and accommodations, punishing anyone who opposes them. A few months ago the army burned two villages to the ground.

Rebel forces aren't thought of as a fighting resource equal to the SPDC. The SSA won't battle the Burmese near a village, as villages suspecting of helping rebels have been severely punished. Instead, rebels are all guerrilla fighters, ambushing government forces in the mountain forests. They say the SPDC hate the Free Burma Rangers the most, because the FBR carry a satellite Internet connection and post pictures of SPDC destruction online immediately after they find it. No matter what, the Shan reps feel like there is no way out. They believe their countrymen living a good life in Rangoon or Mandalay don't know the reality of life for the Shan, but they do know the SPDC are an evil force.

Why is the SPDC doing this? The consensus among the village reps is that this is ethnic cleansing. It always has been. The Burmese in power want the Shan and all the other ethnic groups to disappear, whether by assimilating, leaving or dying.

What the Shan want is the world to know, including the UN, so that they can get humanitarian aid, and eventually freedom. Some of the truth of what life is like in Burma was revealed during the democracy movement and massacre of 1988, but it's always been extremely hard for the Shan's voice to be heard. They say what the world sees of the Shan is just a shadow, not the body.

Interview with medic Bay Da, Shan State, February 2010

From an interview with 27-year-old medic Bay Da, Loi Kaw Wan, Burma, February 2010

What is Loi Kaw Wan?

Loi Kaw Wan is one of the IDP camp. People move from inside Shan State to live here. 

What year did Loi Kaw Wan begin?

Since 2000. During I am here, I didn't hear any problems around here.

We're still in Burma. Why is this place safer than further inside Shan State?

Because how to say that, we have like SSA (rebel Shan State Army) around here to protect this village.

If you're in Burma, in Shan State, how do people get to the IDP camps?

Very difficult. Walking, mostly.

Are you in the SSA?

Yes, I'm medic.

Do all the men have to be in the SSA, or they can choose?

They can choose. Not all. Depend on their mind.

Can they pay their soldiers?

No—which one?

Can the SSA pay?

Yes.

A lot of money?

No. I don't know about that. Not so much.

Do medics get paid good money?

Not so much, in the middle. 1,500 baht. (Per month. =$50)

That's enough?

Not enough.

Is there any way to make money here?

Yes, like, we have to go and pick tea leaves, in Thailand. And then sometimes we farm by ourself. Rice, pig, some rice farm.

Why do the Shan people need medics? Are there no doctors here?

No. Like inside Shan State? Most of the people there get sick, but no doctor, no health worker there. Nobody, like, very few medics.

How many medics are there here in Loi Kaw Wan now?

All of the medics here, 30. But all of them not here.

Where do they go?

Backpack inside. They go inside Shan State and look, take care of the patient inside.

Is it dangerous?

Yes, dangerous. Maybe sometime they're—I don't know, about the SPDC (the Burmese government and army). We have to be careful.

You're only giving medicine. What's wrong with that?

They don't like.

Why not?

They think that we are against them.

Are you?

Yes.

What does the SPDC want to do to the Shan?

They want, like, how to say? They want the Shan all, the Shan people, like no any, like, how to say? They want to do ethnic clean, cleansing. They want Shans to disappear.

But there are eight million Shans.

Yes. They try to control. They make us can't do anything. Like in Shan State they don't allow Shan people to study our language, like that. Like, sometime we study our language in a small village or monastery, temple.

In secret?

Yes.

So do they want you to become like the Burmese, or to disappear?

Maybe both.

How many ethnic groups are in Shan State?

Oh, about 20 ethnic. Shan, Palong, Wa, Kogank, Lahu, Akha, and Chinese. Pa'o, Kayin, many many, but I can't remember. Biggest group is Shan.

Do they want them to disappear too?

Yes, also the same. Everybody in Shan State.

Are there things in Shan State that the Burmese government wants?

Yes, things like natural resources. Wood. How to say, silver. The mines. Mining. No oil. Like gold. Diamond, yes they need a lot. Teak. They don't care about environment.

Do you want to go back to Shan State if you can?

Yes, but if the situation doesn't change it's not safe for me to go back.

What do you think could happen to you?

The SPDC they know from here, they will catch me and torture and they will kill me maybe. I don't know.

Have you seen them torture people before?

Yes.

Who?

My dad. When I was young, about eight or 10 years. They came and took my dad to be a porter and they torture him with cigarette and burn him, burn his cheek.

What did you do?

At that time I'm just children, I don't know. I can't do anything. And my mom only crying.

How long did the SPDC stay with you?

About one or two days. In my village they come from the city.

Did they tell you why?

I don't know. I can't speak their language. I don't know, I don't know. I just see. Make me sad.

Do they do this many times?

Many many times in my village.

Do you know now why they came?

I don't know.

When the SPDC comes to the Shan villages are they all soldiers, or other kinds?

All soldier.

They make you do porter work—

Yes. When I was young I used to go and build house for them.

You built their house?

Yes. Build, and dig. Dig the ground for their fighting.

But they're fighting the Shan.

Yes, but they force us to go to do for them.

So they force you to build their barracks to fight you. Are you angry?

Very angry.

You said they came when you were eight, that was almost 20 years ago. Are they doing the same thing today?

Worse than that. Like last year, they burn the house inside Shan State. They burn the village.

Have you been interviewed before?

Yes, I think two or three times.

Do you think it's helping when you tell your story?

Yes, I think it helps.

Does it make you tired, or sad though?

Yes, makes me sad but, also make me strong.

Can you still contact your family in Shan State?

Yes, by telephone. Sometimes, maybe once a year.

Why not more?

If they don't call me I cannot call them, because they are very far from the town. They come to the town and call me. Give me bad news.

What is the news they gave you this week?

I lost my nephew.

How old was he?

About four years.

How did he die?

From disease. Some disease but I don't know. They don't know. I also ask them, but they don't know.

Didn't he go to a hospital?

No, no hospital there. Just wait and see. Sometimes a little bit herbal medicine from the forest, but not help very much. I lost three younger brother and one sister and one nephew. Five of them, from different diseases.

Do you think about the election anymore?

I don't think the election will be fair. I don't think.

Do you know when it will be?

I don't know. They won't tell. I have no idea about that. Nobody knows.

Can you vote in the election?

No. Most of them, most of the Shan people that live in the small village outside the town they don't have ID, how can they vote? To get ID we have to pay a lot of money.